Or...
"I love you."
"But not enough to remember [blank]...?"
I think in most conventional vanilla relationships, the answer is definitely a blanket "No".
But in a D/s relationship, I think it gets harder.
Upon Googling this issue, I came across some articles discussing this. One of them has some questions to ask.
It seems to me that the problems I'm reading with "If you loved me, you would do X", stem from a perceived inequality in the relationship. There isn't an equal give and take. Someone feels like they're doing more work than another, are not getting what they want/need, etc.
But in a D/s relationship, the parameters are set up differently. One side gives more and the other takes more. Yes, it's not 100% one way or the other ALL the time, but there is an inherent inequality in power and structure.
Another article gives the idea that "If you loved me..." really means that needs aren't being met and a punishment is trying to be given for that to control the situation. Tricky, tricky.
There is a different set of parameters for providing for needs and punishments for bad behaviors that in a vanilla relationship just don't work in the "If you loved me" context.
However despite all that, I still don't believe that it works for a D/s relationship either. It's a tricky situation, because the relationship is set up much differently. But I feel that love is too strong a feeling to be manipulated like that. Especially in a D/s relationship. The feelings are so much more intense that falling from that brings much more hurt. I think it can also be difficult because some of setting up a D/s context is psychological so its a fine line to decide and walk on, one that can really have a bad result. I just don't think a non purposeful negative behavior can healthily be tied into love for another. Obviously if you do something on purpose, that's a different story.
When someone forgets to do something (like remembering to say Sir), it's not because they don't love you enough. Saying so can be very hurtful to the person, especially if they feel they truly do have strong feelings of love. Now the person feels hurt because they're wondering why it's not enough. What could be wrong with them? Why aren't you seeing that they DO love you? Not remembering has nothing to do with love. It just creates a mess for your relationship.
I think its best to avoid tying love for someone into their performance or actions (especially if its not something done purposefully) whether you're in a D/s relationship or not. It can really hurt them and the relationship if not addressed.
Obviously, this issue is something that was prompted by my real life experience. The other night, I didn't say, "Sir" after saying, "I love you, too."
"I love you."
"I love you, too."
"... but not enough to remember Sir?"
I immediately had an awful reaction.
"But that's not right! I do love you and its not fair!...etc"
The statement was immediately retracted by Sir and he said that it was wrong of him to say that. I began to cry because I do love him. In all honesty, I have such strong feelings for him sometimes that it amazes me. I really never thought that I would feel strongly like this for anyone, ever again. I thought that there was possbily something wrong with me; that I was "broken" because I was just so cynical of relationships, and those feelings wouldn't form. Now, maybe I was just meeting the wrong guys. Or maybe I wasn't getting what I needed as a submissive person to feel fulfilled in these relationships. Either way, this has been such a blessing in my life that to have it questioned just rattled me to the core.
He agreed that to question my love for him in that manner was wrong. It was also a bit of a miscommunication in that he was trying to say something else. I can see why its a tricky situation, but I'm glad we're on the same page now.
Lea, I'm only curious and hope this won't cause an issue, but I wonder, why do you seem to always forget the Sir? You've written about forgetting before.
ReplyDeleteMagnusCattus:
ReplyDeleteYou're not causing an issue at all! This is an issue that's already there, and one that I'm trying to work on. I'm not sure why I forget. I don't ALWAYS forget; my ratio of saying it to not saying is definitely in favor of saying it, but I'm not saying it EVERY time.
I don't WANT to forget, and I AM getting better at remembering. I was punished before for forgetting (finally! - not that I seek punishment, but I feel that if I do wrong, SOMETHING needs to happen) and it did help it to stick. I think some of it was a lack of response from my Sir; I was learning that it was "okay" to not say it because nothing was happening for not saying it.
On the other hand, we're not a 24/7 couple, just due to logistics. So there's plenty of time where I don't/can't call him Sir. Sometimes it can be difficult to switch between the two. Its a subtle change in mood or dynamic or such that tells me what is appropriate, and it can be hard to discern.
With Master and I, we agreed from the beginning we would never pull the "If you loved me" line. Very very occasionally he will pull the "But I thought you loved me" with a pouty face if it's obviously joking, but he'd never pull it as dominance.
ReplyDeleteWe know we love each other, and how much. That's not something to abuse, and we won't fuck with it in our power exchange. They're two separate parts of our lives, even if we are working towards 24/7
I see. I'm not able to truly follow any blogs just now, I simply "Catch as catch can". I hadn't caught on to the fact that you aren't with him nearly daily. I can certainly understand how it's hard to "Get in the habit" of doing something you can't do regularly. Do you wear a collar or anything specific to show your status with him?
ReplyDeleteKitten - I agree completely. I'm glad our issue didn't get too out of hand, and will likely never be an issue ever again.
ReplyDeleteMagnusCattus:
I can't really follow blogs right now either - I just don't have the time. I have days where I'll do a massive catch up; but I'm trying to make more of an effort to post at the very least.
With him, when we're alone, I do have a collar. It's pretty imposing, at least for me. We've worked on getting me used to wearing it as much as possible, even in sleep, though Sir is thinking of getting a specific collar for sleep since the one we use can be very cumbersome and restrictive for sleeping.
Lea,
ReplyDeleteSeveral years ago, I worked with a woman that I agreed would never wear my collar, but that I would teach and help explore. She had a somewhat similar problem as the one you seem to be working to overcome in as much as she occasionally had a hard time switching gears into a submissive mode of behaviour and thought. Instead of a collar she wore a broach with my symbol to represent her status with me, in order to indicate to any interested party that they would need to negotiate with me for her attentions (This was at her request). At first she only wore the broach when we were at events or parties, because it didn't seem necessary to me for her to indicate she was under my protection when she was in private with only me. After a bit however, I asked her to put the broach on as part of the ritual she followed to meet me. She had to do the obvious things, groom and dress a specific way, etc. I had her put the broach on when dressing in order to begin that mental switch. It allowed her to get in the right frame of mind before she arrived, instead of starting that switch when she arrived. I also gave her exercises to do, during which she wore the broach and focused on the fact that she was doing what I had asked, as opposed to doing something solely at her own discretion. I wonder if something similar might help you. Perhap putting your collar on and wearing it while reciting a phrase designed to remind you of the importance of addressing him as "Sir". That way when you put the collar on you will be reminded almost unconciously of the need to use "Sir". Since you always wear the collar in his presence you will always have the subtle reminder when you are with him. I in no way mean to tell you what to do, but this worked well for me in the past and I thought I would mention it to you.
MagnusCattus: Thank you for sharing this with me and for this suggestion. I think it has a lot of merit. I'll mention it to Sir, and see what he thinks.
ReplyDelete